Thursday, 6 December 2007

In limbo, and yet dedicated to my people

Ok. This post I write with regards to my people, the Croatian Serbs, what they went through during the war, what has been established as fact by others about the war, and how all of that affects people. This is a long blog post, so get something warm to drink while reading this!

I've been on the Gračac forum a lot lately, which you can visit by clicking on it in the Links section on the left. Thanks to that forum, I get to socialise with people from my hometown and the surroundings thereof. It's become rather addictive; I find myself on that forum every day! Going through the new posts made by my fellow members, fellow Gračac folk, of course! Hey, they're my people, and if there was no war, I would have seen and known many of these people long ago.

But, I have recently found myself in a state of limbo, hence the title of this piece. And it's to do with the war that has seen my people dispersed throughout the world, though particularly concentrated in neighbouring Serbia. You see, I was sharing with them what has been proven by institutions like the Hague tribunal and individuals who fought against Milošević, ie. Milošević started the process of Yugoslavia's break-up in Kosovo. Along with that, while discussing the war, I told them how he openly advocated the preservation of Yugoslavia, while covertly he supported nationalists (Serbian ones, of course) in Bosnia and Croatia who very openly advocated that areas with a Serbian majority in those countries join Serbia and form an enlarged Serbian state denounced by the Western and local media with the name "Greater Serbia". I even shared with them views that many Croats hold about the war in their country.

A lot of my fellow Serbs who regularly participate on the forum are not happy about my views one bit. Some are very visibly upset that their fellow Serb, from their region, could think like that after all what they went through during the war. They are, of course, very well aware that I didn't live through what they did.

You see, it is very difficult to share such widely accepted facts with my people (facts that have openly been proven in the Hague, for instance), and pretty much impossible for them to accept them, because these facts in many ways conflict with what they personally and actually experienced at the time. I have noticed this when discussing with them, and I shall share with you just what they experienced.

And before any of you start having problems with me sticking up for my people, I just want to say, yes it is true. Milan Martić and Milan Babić, the leaders of the short-lived breakaway "Republika Srpska Krajina", led my people into war, betrayed my people and caused a lot of harm along the way to Croats. They've both been punished for what they did, both have received more than a decade in jail sentence (Martić three and a half decades; Babić 13 years though only served two of them since he killed himself). And most of all, I despise what they've done to MY people, THEIR people!!!

Martić and Babić are guilty, that is all true and I don't make excuses for them. Bear in mind though that Babić at least confessed his crimes, and probably because of that got a shorter sentence than his partner in crime. I do think that they also bear at least some responsibility - but not complete - for why the majority of my people don't live in their towns and villages across Croatia as they used to do before, but rather elsewhere in the world, particularly in Serbia. However, in my book and in many others', the prime culprits for the exoduses I shall discuss later, are the governments of Zagreb and Belgrade at that time.

However, and this is a BIG HOWEVER, the problem is my people didn't experience the war in that way, the way that I have explained above which the Hague tribunal has established. They also remember what happened from 1990 to 1995 in a much different way than what the Croatian state and media claim and have claimed for the past 16 years.

The Croatian side claims how their country, and as a result their nation, was a victim of "aggression", namely from Serbia, and that the land that was part of the "Republika Srpska Krajina" constituted "occupied territories". The Serbs who lived in that Krajina, my people, don't agree with those two terms and are in fact offended by them. Even I disagree with the usage of the words "aggression/aggressors" and "occupied territory/ies". I particularly resent the word "occupied" being used for areas like Gračac, whose majority Serbian populations at least democratically chose, for right or wrong reasons, to be part of that Krajina. Not to mention how the Serbs who specifically fought in the army of the "Republika Srpska Krajina" can't be called "aggressors". Yes, they fought against Croatia and some of the members of that army did indeed commit war crimes. But still, you just can't say that they fought against their towns and villages; and of course, they did not invade their hometowns and villages. And I stand by that.

You really have to put yourself in my poeple's shoes, and try to imagine yourself being subjected to the kind of circumstances and influences they were subjected to at that time. It's really no good doing what the Croatian media encourages Croats to do, which is to just assume they were "aggressors" occupying "their" land, as if majority Serbian towns like mine and others are the personal possession of every Croat under the sun. How ridiculous! And another thing, you really have to remember the Second World War.

You know that World War Two started in 1939, right? Well, it came to Yugoslavia in 1941. And to cut an even longer story short, the Kingdom of Yugoslavia capitulated to the Axis powers and was divided up. And upon the territory of modern-day Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina and Srem in Serbia was established the notorious "Independent State of Croatia" ("Nezavisna Država Hrvatska"), a puppet state run by the "Ustaše", which had as its goal to rid the territory it had authority over of "undersirables" like Jews and Roma like Germany - BUT, more importantly for this fascist Croatian state was to eradicate one group in partcular, Serbs. And considering how 1.9 million of them were located within this "Independent State of Croatia", the Ustaše could take their pick and treat my people like fair game to butcher and slaughter any way they like. And while Germany ran Auschwitz in Poland, this Croatia had Jasenovac, a death camp within its own territory. The number of victims in that camp has been in despute, and is beyond the scope of this article. Research in the 1980s suggests that the number of all Serbian lives the Ustaše are responsible for taking could be anything from 200,000 to over 300,000 people, of course covering the entire territory of the fascist "Independent State of Croatia".

In the face of all this apocalypse and tragedy, my people managed to survive, rebuild their lives in Marshal Tito's Yugoslavia, and build a better future for their families, which is why I am here writing this post to you.

Therefore, bear in mind what happened to the Croatian Serbs, and other Serbs whose towns and villages were so unlucky to fall under the jurisdiction of that fascist puppet state during the Second World War, when dealing with this recent war in Croatia.

Another thing I notice is this anti-Western sentiment among Croatian Serbs, which you'll find among many other Serbs as well, since much of Western foreign policy during the nineties was indeed geared towards undermining Slobodan Milošević's régime, not to mention how the Western media condemned and disparaged the Serbian nationalist régime in Bosnia that established the Republika Srpska.

You have to remember that they were pretty much cut off from the outside world. No state in the world recognised this short-lived state of Krajina, and even Serbia which supported the breakaway republic was isolated from the world, sanctions and embargos galore. But while Serbia was an isolated "pariah" state, the Croatian Serbs' isolation had an "on the edge of survival" characteristic.

The Serbs living in the Krajina were never sure of what was going to happen to them, and ever since the war you'll find many of them always thinking how as they often say "centres of power" are controlling what is happening in the politica sphere. This sounds very much like a conspiracy theory. However, I hope you don't find this too bizarre, because this idea of "outside forces" deciding the fate of millions beneath them is precisely based on what they actually experienced. You see, as the war unfolded, my people who found themselves with that short-lived breakaway state, depended their very survival (which sounds over the top, but really isn't) on: one, the army of the "Republika Srpska Krajina" since they were fighting against Tuđman and in turn Croatia; two, on their leaders in Knin, the convicted Martić and Babić; and three, they also looked to Belgrade, because Milošević was an important influence upon the two leaders of the Krajina, not to mention party to the war.

And so, they depended on their leaders, who in the end betrayed them so humiliatingly. And in turn, there must be some other leaders who are also to blame! With regards to the major source of Croatian Serbs' anti-Western sentiment, it is very well known that the United States did of course support Croatia military. In fact, it was the Americans who gave Zagreb the "green light" to carry out "Operation Oluja", which led to the exodus of my people from Krajina that I explain below. And therefore, it is not hard to understand why Croatian Serbs, after all that's happened to them, blame the West in some way for what happened to them during the war.


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As to the causes of the war, according to many of my fellow Croatian Serbs - and it must be said that Serbian politicians with often dodgy reputations like Borisav Jović often repeat this claim - what caused the conflict in Croatia was the change - or at least perceived change - in their people's status in the country's constitution. They've maintained this position for all these years. According to the constitution from 1974 till 1990, Croatia was officially:


"the state of the Croatian people, the state of the Serbian people in
Croatia and the state of all nationalities that reside in her".

My people in Croatia considered themselves a "constitutional people" based on this constitution, and they felt it was very important for them to be a "constitutional people", because, based on their war effort against fascism during the Second World War, especially against the home-grown Croatian fascism, it was only right in the name of all the Serbian victims of fascism and the genocide Croatian fascism wrought on them for them to be a "constitutional people". What also came with being a "constitutional people" as written in the constitution was that Croatia was a binational state, the state of both the Croatian people and Serbian people in Croatia, something that provided the Serbs of Croatia with a sense of security after the nightmarish ordeal they had survived. Mind you, even in Austro-Hungarian times, my people in modern-day Croatia had certain privileges.

That wording you see above was changed in 1990 by Croatian assembly with Franjo Tuđman as the country's president into:


"…The Republic of Croatia establishes itself as a national state of the Croatian people and a state of those people and minorities who are her citizens…"

This paragraph in the constitution, believe it or not, goes on to mention the various nations - including my Serbian people - to whom are guaranteed "equality with citizens of Croatian nationality" and the "realization of national rights".

Let's look at the changed wording in full:


"…The Republic of Croatia establishes itself as a national state of the Croatian
people and a state of those peoples and minorities who are her citizens: of the Serbs, Muslims, Slovenes, Czechs, Slovaks, Italians, Hungarians, Jews, and of others, to whom are guaranteed equality with citizens of Croatian nationality and the realization of national rights in accordance with democratic norms of the UN and countries of the free world."

With all that is said of how my people's status was demoted in Croatia's constitution, I have to say how the change of wording as I and anyone else can see it is not in the least bit offensive.

However, I remind you once again that I am speaking as a Serb who didn't live through Croatia's secession and the ensuing war like my people did. Of course, I am saying this as someone looking in from the outside, not to mention from an historical distance.

I can understand that this perceived change in status alarmed a lot of Serbs in the country, considering the security they felt being a "constitutional people" in Croatia. Even our people's more moderate representatives at the time saw this as a major provocation at the expense of the Serbian people in Croatia, because they saw Croatia as a binational state of both the Croatian people and Serbian people in Croatia, a status awarded to them for their effort in liberating Croatia.

It must be noted that many of my fellow Serbs in Croatia and elsewhere just did not like the idea of being a "minority in their own country". But also because it was Franjo Tuđman's government that made this change that compounded this state of alarm among us Serbs, since he was very unpopular for his nationalistic rhetoric and his views on certain issues that affected us.


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And so, the state that was established to protect the Serbian people, the "Republika Srpska Krajina", from the kind of Croatian fascists my people were victims of during World War Two (Ustaše), was defeated by Croatia's army in 1995. What wasn't brought under Croatia's control that year was later peacefully re-integrated in 1997. But what happened in 1995 has also been disputed between Serbs and Croats.

Basically, as you already know, the Croatian army mounted the military campaign named "Operation Oluja", "oluja" being the Serbo-Croatian word for "storm". And as you may know, Croats see this as their ultimate victory over the Serbian Chetnik "occupiers/aggressors", and what not. Prior to "Oluja", there was "Operation Bljesak", "bljesak" meaning "lightning", and this is also considered a victory over these same "bad guys", "baddies". And as you will also know, both actions resulted in widescale exoduses of the Serbian population from those parts of modern-day Croatia that were under "Republika Srpska Krajina" beforehand. With "Bljesak" came the flight of about 30,000 Serbs, while with "Oluja" came the exodus of around 200,000 Serbs from the fallen Krajina. My numerous family members and their fellow townspeople and villagers were victims of this "Oluja".

I have mentioned this in my blog before and I shall mention this again. The Croatian state denies and continues to deny all responsibility for the resulting exodus of my people during "Oluja", and dare I say how the media of that country follows suit. Instead, they primarily blame the Krajina authorities for "evacuating" the Serbs under their authority; they lay responsibility upon the leaders of the fallen Krajina for having "ordered" the Serbs under their authority not to stay in their homes should the Croatian army take control of territory under this breakaway state, and for having "informed" the populace prior to "Oluja" through their media of which routes to take!

This is all very confusing for anyone who was either not personally involved in what happened or is just not very familiar with the historical background! Not to mention how all of this is very contradictory - hey, not the first time when it comes to the histories of the Balkan peoples, I can tell you that for sure!

So we're dealing with a humanitarian catastrophe which happened at the same time as what Croats believe was an act of "liberation". We know that many crimes were committed by Croatian troops upon Serbian civilians who chose to stay back and not leave with their fellow Serbs (mainly the older people). We also know that Croatian troops even harrassed Serbs assembled in those very columns that stretched for miles leading into Bosnia destined for Serbia. Around 200,000 Serbs fled the fallen Krajina through Bosnia into Serbia, and yet according to many Croats, these Serbs just "voluntarily" left.

Without having to guess, you can see that Croatian Serbs who lived through the exodus that coincided with "Oluja" are understandably offended by what the Croatian media and politicians claim, ie. the Croatian side of the story, with regards to this military action. However, you must understand why many Croats are so insensitive to the plight of Serbs.

As you know, Milan Martić and Milan Babić are convicted war criminals. And during their leadership of the short-lived Krajina, they committed war crimes against Croatian civilians, crimes that include ethnic cleansing, specifically mass expulsions of Croatian civilians from their towns and villages numbering over 100,000 people in 1991, at the very beginning of the conflict. Therefore, I don't have to explain much for you to already notice why many Croats are not in the least concerned by the exodus of Serbs - my people - during "Oluja" and the exodus before during "Bljesak".

All this, of course, makes reconciliation between Serbs and Croats from Croatia very difficult, not least because they don't even agree with what happened! But you must also remember that many Croats also consider Croatian Serbs collectively as "traitors" to their (Croats') beautiful homeland for all the war crimes committed under Martić and Babić, let alone for choosing to break away from Croatia, which they did democratically. And this adds to the contempt many Croats have for Serbs and for what they went through during the war, and thus makes reconciliation even more difficult.


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The main problem you'll find between communities that have been at war against one another, as you've noticed from what you've read above, is obviously that they don't look at how the other side feels; they don't try to put themselves into their shoes. Many people may not want to reconcile with their former foe. And you know what? That's fine. In my opinion, such people should try to keep their hatred to themselves, live with it if they can. But most importantly for them to bear in mind: one, do nothing to realise their hatred; and two, leave us who want to live in peace with our neighbours, who want peace between our communities, alone.

Many Serbs don't want to see things from the Croatian point of view, just like Croats don't want to see things from the Serbian point of view. But you know what, and let's be fair on them. They don't particularly have to. Besides, you must remember that many of my fellow Serbs from Gračac and across the fallen Krajina have lost friends and family during the last war, and if you were to explain to them that their side committed crimes against the other side, you may get wrongly accused of "feeling sorry for the other side" in opposition to their side, ie. siding with the enemy. And if you're a Serb like me, and a Croatian one at that, suggesting to Croatian Serbs that Milošević is more responsible for the break-up of Yugoslavia than Croatian separatists like Tuđman could make you very unpopular, even make people consider you "treatcherous"!

And so, without repeating things too much, people who were personally victimised by a certain side are not likely to sympathize with the victims from that side and vice versa. And this is so true for both the Croatian and Serbian peoples who lived through this war. Considering which, you can guess what it's like for Bosnia's three main ethnic communities.


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However, many Serbs, in this case Serbs in general, find it very difficult to believe - believe it or not - that members of their own people could bear so much responsibility for much of what happened during the 90s. Hence, why the Hague was very unpopular among many Serbs for a very long time and still is among right-wing sections of the public. And it's also the classical cliché of the mother who can't believe that her son, her sweet little baby boy she brought into the world and raised with love and care, could commit a crime like murder or rape.

But there's another reason, and it's based on our history. We Serbs were many times the victims and collectively so, be it victims of the Ottoman Turks for over four hundred or of the Croatian Ustaše in the first half of the 20th century. That's not to say that even in those times members of our nation haven't victimised others, of course they have. But still, what our people went through during those times has left its own mark on our collective psyche.

And it is this very psyche, the many times persecuted Serbian soul, that psychopathic individuals like Radovan Karadžić, who practically destroyed Bosnia's multicultural society - though not on his own, obviously - could manipulate by grossly influencing people to seek revenge against their neighbours for those evil deeds that were committed by members of those nations sometime against the Serbs in the Balkans' long and bitter past.

This again is something we must learn from. People who've suffered like the Serbs have during history are very prone to seek revenge for the things that have happened to them in the past, in particular against those people whose members committed those actions in the first place. It is a very tragic example of what is often called the "viscious cycle of revenge".

Considering which, thanks to Karadžić and the atrocities committed by his inferiors, now many Bosniaks want to avenge us Serbs for what happened to them during the 90s, which is something that deeply upsets me as a person and to some extent as a member of the Serbian people, and no doubt many other Serbs feel this way too. What's also sad is how these are people with whom we were not long ago actually developing a common Yugoslav identity before this dreadful conflict in Bosnia. And it's understandable that I feel this way, since nobody who is sensible and conscientious enough in this world would want whole nations to bear hostility towards their nation; nobody wants other people to hate their people.


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And so, I shall end this already very long blog post with this.

If someone were to ask me how I felt about what my Serbs, the Croatian Serbs, went through during the first half of the 1990s, I would answer them by saying, "heartbroken". Heartbroken that those leaders who led my people have, thanks to their politics, contributed to the current situation my people are in, ie. not by their centuries-old "hearths" as we call our lands, but in Serbia and other parts of the world. And after all our grandparents and great-grandparents went through during the Second World War, the genocide committed by the Ustaše against their communities and families, my people certainly didn't deserve all this.

They're MY people, and they shouldn't have gone through what they did. Many of them don't agree with my views and they have every right not to agree. And yet, being a Croatian Serb and having this blog which I write in an international language, I feel it necessarily to try and spread at least some awareness of the problems my people face. And I would also like people who are interested in the Balkans and/or concerned with the break-up of Yugoslavia and its aftermath to read my views about what my people, the Croatian Serbs, are going through on an online web log like this.

So with this blog, I shall try to be my people's voice, be it "alternative", that I hope they will eventually understand (!), and when it comes to the crunch, should push come to shove, show their support for!

EDITED: 14th FEBRUARY.

14 comments:

DRAGANA said...

Trebalo je zivjeti u RSK i prozivjeti rat...neopisivo je,nema rjeci koje bi to mogle opisati.....malo je reci da je jezivo,uzasno bilo u Oluji....

DRAGANA said...

Vjekovima smo zivjeli tamo,to je oduvjek bilo srpsko,velika je tragedija za cjelokupan narod sto se ovo desilo.Najgore je sto svjet nista povodom toga nije uradio a preko 700 000 Srba je protjerano sa svojih ognjista.A za zrtve u Oluji niko ne odgovara,dok su Srbi koji su proglaseni ratnim zlocincima svi osudjeni u Hagu...zato za zlocine nad Srbima Hag nista nije uradio,sramota je sto su pojedine zlocince osudili samo na 3 god...a Martic je dobio 35,uzasss

Anonymous said...

This post was very interesting but I also disagree. with some you have to say about "operation storm" and RSK. RSK was a occupier and "agresor" no denying that..and the people who wore that uniforms are enemies I Don't care if there from that town.If I Declared in the city im living in now to some other country I am the ENEMY!.And for "Storm" I understand for many Serbs that is one of the worst thing that happened,but it was a necessary step to take control of the country. Now the Cleansing and kicking the Serbs out that's bad and I dk if there is enough proof that HV Did that.believe it or not a large number of Serbs did leave Krajna before Oluja happened Urged by Belgrade to get out of Krajna.

Anonymous said...

Excellent study, I just passed this onto a colleague who was doing a little investigation on that. And he really bought me lunch simply because I found it for him smile So let me rephrase that: Many thanks for lunch!

Anonymous said...

ako su srbi u hrvatskoj, bosni, i kosovu konstitutivan narod, to znaci, nesrbi u hrvatskoj, bosni, i kosovu nemogu donasati nikakvi zakon il mjeru bez svesrpske dozvole.
sto u stvari znaci da bi srbi imali pet neovosinih drzava.
i bivajuci najaci narod mogli bi reci: ili po nasemu ili oruzjem.
a to s uu stvari i uradili 90te g.
a toga nece nikad vise biti! bozhidar

Anonymous said...

serb enclaves were separated by croatian enclaves, villages, and towns. thus, to set up a contigious new serb country, panserbs had to expel about 100k croats and kill about 3k in the process.

democratically, of course! but was it morally and legally right.
but, of course, according to nearly all serbs.

when the criminal enterprise failed, panserbs fell on plan B: all we wanted was an autonomy.
but croat'n govt did not want to talk to us. we did everything possible to avert the war or rise up in arms against croatia.

we took arms only to protect ourselves from coming ustashe.

nikada nije ikad bilo koji dio hrvastke bio srpski nego samo srpsko-hrvatski.
ako se je koje selo zeljelo proglasiti diom srbije, onda bi to bilo u redu.

ali zapaliti htvatsko selo koje bi se nalazilo izmedju dva il tri srpska sela, e, to ne ide.

a izagnali ste na hiljade hrvata. zapalili, unistiuli na hiljade hrvatskih kuca, bombardiraly dubrovnik, napali sibenik, itd.

dosli ste vragom i otisli vragom. ne cete nikad vise prijetiti hrvatima i unasati strah.

sad hocete hrvatske penzije i onda zbrisati u srbiju.

strasni narode nikad vam nije dosta mrznje na sve vase susjede!

Alan Jakšić said...

Anonymous — unless you're Bozhidar from above — I don't believe that Serbs or any other ethnic group have a "moral" or "legal" right to expel or kill other people, whether under the command of dicatorial or democratically-elected rulers. And I doubt that the article I wrote above in 2007 could've given you that impression.

And let me assure you that I am not filled with that same hatred for my neighbours, as many of my fellow Serbs are, for two very good reasons: one, I simply wasn't located in Croatia — or the short-lived Krajina — during the war, so I wasn't personally affected by the war; and two, I have something I call a "conscience", which includes a strong sense of "compassion", which makes it very difficult for me to hate anyone. I hope you can appreciate that.

And I suppose you're also aware that not all Serbs lived in the areas within the 'Republika Srpska Krajina'; there were many Serbs who lived in towns and cities across Croatia, like the capital Zagreb, Rijeka, Karlovac and even Dubrovnik, during the war and still do now. Do you know any Serbs like that, and do you know their stories?

Anonymous said...

alan, i did not have u in mind when i wrote the post in question.
it was just an observation. tnx bozhidar

Anonymous said...

Alan:
"i particularly resent gracac area being called "occupied territories...."

gracac and its environ was populated by croats, but once serbs in that area took up arms or were armed by serbian army stationed at that time in croatia and expelled most or all croats, only then it became ur homeland and/or int'lly recognized yet another in a row of serb republics.

obviously, the area being croat'n homeland for 1300 yrs, ceased to be that in '90.

i am not sure that u are not performing a prestidigitation: croatia does not exist; its borders are makeshift or unjust; recognition of gracac as croatian territory is invalid, etc.

so i now see what do u mean by ur homeland: purified region of croatia.

thus far i have come across many salient errors in ur writings about croatia. ad i think u will definitely hate my future posts.
u may even block my comments or i may even leave if
u continue to be so strongly against peace, understandings, enlightenment.

Anonymous said...

Alan:
"i particularly resent gracac area being called "occupied territories...."

gracac and its environ was populated by croats, but once serbs in that area took up arms or were armed by serbian army stationed at that time in croatia and expelled most or all croats, only then it became ur homeland and/or int'lly recognized yet another in a row of serb republics.

obviously, the area being croat'n homeland for 1300 yrs, ceased to be that in '90.

i am not sure that u are not performing a prestidigitation: croatia does not exist; its borders are makeshift or unjust; recognition of gracac as croatian territory is invalid, etc.

so i now see what do u mean by ur homeland: purified region of croatia.

thus far i have come across many salient errors in ur writings about croatia. ad i think u will definitely hate my future posts.
u may even block my comments or i may even leave if
u continue to be so strongly against peace, understandings, enlightenment.

Alan Jakšić said...

Don't worry Bozhidar, I won't block your comments. However, let me re-assure that I am pro-peace, I do advocate understanding, and I am aiming for enlightenment!

The Gračac municipality (opština or općina) had an ethnic Serb majority in 1991, at least 80%, whereas Croats mainly in the Lovinac area (which was then within the Gračac municipality) accounted for at least 16%.

According to the rules of modern-day democracy, being based on the will of the majority, Serbs in Gračac and in other majority Serb areas in Croatia overwhelmingly opposed Croatia's secession based on deeply held fears of Croatian nationalism going back to WW2.

Now, the moral question here is: is it democratic to permit discrimination or even violence against minorities, even if the majority supports it? I would say no, as that would lead to a "tyranny of the majority", which I think is against the spirit of democracy.

And FYI, Lika as a whole, and the Gračac area in particular, is my homeland; my ancestors were born, lived and died there, and you can guess where they were buried! And personally speaking, I have property in the town of Gračac itself, which was built upon land my great-grandfather bought long ago (he himself was born in a village not far from the town).

Anonymous said...

alan,
we do not claim that serbs lived and had the right to live in peace-security in many untouching serb rural enclaves thruout croatia.

such enclaves have moral right to declare selves serbia 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ...

gracac, after expelling croats from it and its environ, cld have been declared serbia 1 or 2 or even serb homeland.[readers, please, read panserb homeland]

recall please what homeland for 'jews' turned out to be. and let's recall what some 20 serb homelands in croatia turned out to be for ab. 4% of croat'n pop by aug '90.

still, u had the moral right [maybe legal also] to ur many serbias in croatia.

but the lands in between serb republics wld be morally and legally croat'n territory.
and then what?
20 new serb countries, cut from one another, isolated, hated, etc. wld be good for poor serbs??

it is thusly why panserbs did not opt for many serb new countries.

rural serbs, ab. 15ok serbs, have actually voted for an autonomy and not for rendering untouching enclaves contiguous and, i may add, by expelling and killing nonserbs in the same enclaves.

it shld be noted that it is legally and morally correct to first draft what one wants in any autonomy, then present it for study to the other side.

and if the other side approves of it or presents a final counter offer, only then one holds a referendum for acceptance or rejection.

or is the other side buy a pig in a poke?

so, i know what ur homeland means: greater serbia, justified by collective punishment of a people,many of which fought the individual responsible fro crimes perped during ww2 against serbs, croats, jews, and romas.

so how does ur stance differ from, that of seselj, milosevic, et al?

i think u'r playing a good cop-bad cop game game on us.
is it any wonder that no croat posts on these site.
imo [in my opinion] ur' stance is not conducive to peace in the balkans or world.
tnx bozhidar

Anonymous said...

alan, what are causative factors-- and evaluated as such by u.n.--for ur implicitly-stated rejection [or even actual mention] of the Z-4 plan.

and how can u call gracac "my homeland" in view of the fact that ur homeland of gracac had expelled ?all croat'ns and murdered some in cold blood?

and why serbs in chicago, vancouver, zagreb do not call their areas serb homelands? tnx bozh

Alan Jakšić said...

Bozhidar,

"so, i know what ur homeland means: greater serbia, justified by collective punishment of a people,many of which fought the individual responsible fro crimes perped during ww2 against serbs, croats, jews, and romas.

"so how does ur stance differ from, that of seselj, milosevic, et al?"


Bozhidar, Bozhidar. I do NOT support Greater-Serbia; I denounce it! I never thought it was a good idea; I always saw it as problematic on many levels.

And my stance differs greatly from Šešelj et al in that I don't believe in states, borders, or any nationalism that promotes these things; that's what it means to be an Anarchist.

"is it any wonder that no croat posts on these site."

I suppose you as a Croat post here. Before you I had a half-Croat/half-Bosniak called Sam post comments here. And I hope many more Croats post here; I welcome all comments about the Balkans, politics, Anarchism, music and art here!

"and how can u call gracac "my homeland" in view of the fact that ur homeland of gracac had expelled ?all croat'ns and murdered some in cold blood?"

I can call Gračac my homeland for the reasons mentioned in my above comment. What Martić and others did to Croats and others does not render my family history invalid, nor does it criminalise my sentiment of belonging to Lika.